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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 47 post(s)
Raymon James Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.01.26 17:34:00 - [1] Originally by: Gnulpie Originally by: CCP Whisper Every wormhole system will have a wormhole that leads you back to known space. Noooooooooooooo....... No 'search for eve space' - treck then? So it is always guaranteed that you can move from wormhole space directly into eve-space through one single wormhole? Please consider that!! It would be even more awesome if there would be an x% chance that there are only wormholes leading into wormhole space and not back to eve space! This way it would be really possible that you would end up with some space-nomanding in the (desperate) search for a way back. they said leads you back not leads you back right away. . .
Raymon James Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.01.26 18:39:00 - [2] Originally by: Ordais Originally by: CCP Prism X Edited by: CCP Prism X on 26/01/2009 17:52:32 Bookmarks! Man, I have* a hate/hate relationship with bookmarks. It's so intense that the 'have' over there was another 'hate' before I proof read this. But my old score with them aside. They will work in their relevant systems although you never know what systems that is, it's position towards the one you are currently in, the way there or if the great Space Hydra has eaten it. But you can use them to see if you have been there before, yes. I cry inside thinking of the umpteenthousand new little bookmark records in the DB. Well, its your choice tbh, if BMs are the only way to create a MAP of some sorts, then we will use them. Why create a map you say if the links change all the time? Simple no? To catalog the ressources in a system. If you dont want to create thousands of new BMs give us another way to chart the world. might be interesting to allow the "first person in" to drop a perma data maker with a name they pick. . . granted that means that we will see a lot of systems named things like Newbi wastelands, *sies pile and "how the ** do you program this nameing marker again"
Raymon James Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.01.26 21:26:00 - [3] Originally by: Serenity Star Originally by: CCP Whisper Originally by: Serenity Star "And if all wormhole systems have a wormhole leading back to normal space..." All wormholes systems have an exit wormhole, that does not mean an exit wormhole leading back to empire, just out of the system you are in. This. You're going to have to wait for Greyscale's blog for the details, but "There is always a way out" does not always mean you're going to end up back where you started from. Your trek home might require getting through a couple of wormhole systems and then running the pipe from 0.0 down to Empire. You might pop out in Gallente space after having left from Vuorassi. All will be revealed in the near future though. So a WH system does not nessecarly have a link back to the gate network.... YES! Greyscale... your blog... we needz it! We are already suffering from blog withdrawal? wow! These blogs are the real thing! To be honest Im a bit confused about things. as it is it sounds like anyone entering a wormhole from empire is taking a chance that it pops and drops them into the guts of 0.0. the odds are that if thats the case your not going to get many people from empire to bother with it, so I suspect that most high sec empire wormholes will drop you into empire.
Raymon James Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.01.26 22:03:00 - [4] Originally by: CCP Whisper Originally by: Henglar We want giant space whales!!! The design's being worked on in response to the feedback in this thread and there is a good chance that they won't end up being the same thing. Well, they'll look the same but they'll work in a different manner. Can't say much more than that right now because...well there isn't much more than that. um its what 6 weeks untill this goes live and you havent gotten to that bit yet? yeep!
Raymon James Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.01.26 22:35:00 - [5] Originally by: CCP Whisper Originally by: Rex Lashar Basically, you guys didn't think as players would when you designed this - this was one of the first thoughts my friend and I had. Actually we did think like players. But when you're designing as large and complex a feature as this, sometimes you overlook things. ... ...I strongly believe that the challenge and rewards we will be putting into W-space will motivate many small groups to take the plunge and venture into the unknown. I hope that the fact that the NPC's will behave more like PvP opponents will help get lots of people used to fitting and fighting for PvP and increase the confidence of pilots to the point where they take their chances in low-sec and 0.0. Above all, I hope that people have fun out there. If your definition of fun is spending hours keeping a mothership alive in the middle of the unknown, go for here is one of the problems with the system Production NEEDS on some level a reliable supply to work not the unstable mess your promising with this expansion. (and thats what it boils down to, right now Im seeing a system where the only thing that is garanteed is that your bascialy screwed if your in Wspace and the hole closes, you end up with the need to fly through space that will probably be hostile to some degree to fly home. As it is what I DO see is a mechanism for greifing people. just hop back and forth with a cheep no fit ship to crush the gate. BOOM the gate goes byby and the odds are the people you stranded their now have a 20+ jump back to home, and with most of Kspace being <.5 then the odds are fairly good when that happens that its going to be hostile to some degree or another. theirfor your going to need to somehow fix the risk Vs reward. wich means that T3 had better be a LOT better than T2 ships. Otherwise? Bascialy all Im seeing is a mechanism for randomly dumping people in hostile space in order to encourage some kind of PvP.
Raymon James Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.01.26 22:46:00 - [6] Originally by: CCP Whisper Originally by: Alz Shado Yes, we figured out that this would allow carriers and other capitals that are not meant to be in high sec space a way in. And we're taking measures to prevent that. . I hope your introduceng a "improved orca" as a exploration base for wormholes, perhaps a "pilot whale" or "Globicephala" or Calder=n
Raymon James Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.01.26 22:58:00 - [7] Originally by: CCP Whisper Originally by: Demeterus In the dev blog there seems to be a fairly good balance which means you can't just warp in a capital fleet and wipe out a smaller corp or alliance that already exist there, and it was my impression that you were heading in a direction where even small scale logistics were becoming impossible. If I read that wrong, then I am of course humbled. No, I think small scale logistics will still have a place in wormhole space. I expect in the first few months we'll see people attempting both the large-scale, "take over systems and hold them" approach as well as smaller scale "ninja exploring" with four or five ships to dart in, grab what they can and get out. Which one will be the most profitable over time is an unknown quantity. Attempting to hold a system with the logistical wrangling that entails might not pay off as much as people think compared to the profit to be made from splitting your large group up into several squads who hit and run. We'll be keeping a very close eye on how things develop and re-balance as required. W-space is here to stay and we will do whatever we need to in order to make it a fun and rewarding game mechanic. I still think the idea of a Calder=n(pilot whale) mobile Exploration base is the solution to this problem. something that can deal with being dumped in low sec, has the hanger cap to suport a small-medium exploration corp, and bonuses to probes and Exploration modules.
Raymon James Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.01.26 23:14:00 - [8] Originally by: ZombieFan 69er Originally by: Raymon James I still think the idea of a Calder=n(pilot whale) mobile Exploration base is the solution to this problem. something that can deal with being dumped in low sec, has the hanger cap to suport a small-medium exploration corp, and bonuses to probes and Exploration modules. I think what your suggesting is an ORCA with a little less industrial/mining and more science and exploration etc? that and a slightly better base tank. As it is its ok for use as an empire Explorer (theirs already at least one group that has Orcas as moble bases to explore) but given what may be needed to set up an op in Wspace it can use some optimising
Raymon James Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.01.27 00:19:00 - [9] Originally by: Erakyn Originally by: Xennith orca. Assuming your post was in response to my question the Orca is not really an acceptable solution for a variety of reasons. 1) The mass allocation of the wormhole may not allow an Orca 2) Not every drone pilot should be forced to bring an Orca into W-space just to replenish their ammo 3) Forcing the Orca into a logistical exploration base (regardless of whether or not it is a good fit for that role) for all small corporation is not a good game mechanic. 1)Except for the detail that they have already indicated that it was a posiblity that you could bring in motherships. A Nyx masses in at 1,292,500,000 kg an Orca masses in at 250,000,000 you can thus run 5 Orcas through a W that can handle a nyx. 2) fine then bring in a Itheron. 3) Gee dont tell that to the people who are currently useing orcas as mobile exploration bases right now. but even at that my sudgestion for a "Pilot whale" class exploration ship that is designed around the idea of useing wormholes Role Bonus: 250% bonus to Scan probe endurance NNN% bonus to Scen probe Velocity or sensitivity or however it works now NNN% bonus to Exploration scanner range 99% reduction in CPU need for Gang Link modules Wormhole Exploration bonus Skill Bonus: 5% reduction in mass for Wormhole endurance calculation (only) N% bonus to effectiveness of Exploration-science modules Seige mode idea Wormhole stabelisor, allowes a wormhole to be stabelised (from inside Wspace) long enough for a "Everyone OUT!" evacuation before the wormhole closes
Raymon James Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.01.27 02:02:00 - [10] ok just looking at the raw stats its 45 trys to get a net 50% chance to get a given Wspace to connect to a specific region its 91 trys to get the odds up to ~75% its 149 trys to get the odds up to 90% and a whoping 199 trys to get the odds to 95% the problem remains however that in the mean time someone else can still pop in one of the other WGates into the Wspace your trying to use, and your fleet in the mean time is tied up with trying to relocate the Wspace you want to try to hold. I suspect it will be easyer to just run the system you find.

Raymon James Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.01.27 03:42:00 - [11] eh Lets be realistic. the Wspace is bascialy lower than 0.0 space. because each Wspace system will aparently have multiple random wormholes to get to it from various random security levels I suspect that most empire explorers/mission runners will defacto ignore them while 0.0 mission runners will do them. the only "fix" to that would be to segregate the wormholes by what security region they link to. but I doubt they will do that.
Raymon James Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.01.27 14:16:00 - [12] Originally by: CCP Prism X ...Oh and I know there is a veldnaught there. You can think of that as a tourist attraction (and if you need to fit it into my weird analogy: It's a nudist colony that was founded before nekkid bodies were made illegal). We know you guys know about the Veldnaught. what your thinking of here is refered to as a Grandfather clause. and no they are not automatic. Depending on the Jurisdiction they may have to be put into the revised law or can be made subject to expiration (IE a bar location rule change can have a grandfather clause that expires after a fix time period or be made non transferable to new owners)
Raymon James Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.01.27 14:35:00 - [13] Edited by: Raymon James on 27/01/2009 14:38:08 Edited by: Raymon James on 27/01/2009 14:37:45 Edited by: Raymon James on 27/01/2009 14:37:09 Originally by: CCP Greyscale Second blog is being written, but in the meantime, a whole load of questions answered... Originally by: MotherMoon 5) I'm dead and in a pod! OK so if our on-board scanner is going to be useless, what happen if our probe ship gets killed.. are you stuck in wormhole space until we commit suicide? 5) Simple solution, make the probe launcher use a new "Probe launcher only" slot thats found on all ships and make avalible a cheep crap low skill low fitting requirment long scantime probe thats fairly chunky(5X the size of the next smallest probe)and launcher avalible.(heck just make it a probe drone if you need to, or deployable from the cargo bay and non recoverable) if you need to make it so that useing it sucks the cap dry on any ship to online it.
Raymon James Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.01.27 14:36:00 - [14] Edited by: Raymon James on 27/01/2009 14:36:27 duplicate post sorry
Raymon James Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.01.27 14:41:00 - [15] Originally by: CCP Greyscale Originally by: Inara Subaka Originally by: CCP Greyscale Originally by: yunger There's value on each wormhole that determines the biggest ship mass that can go through the wormhole in one go, independent of the overall mass budget. All wormholes linking to hisec have this value set so that capital ships can't go through. In the situation you describe, you'll just have to wait until a big enough wormhole appears for you. Wormholes - serious business. So bascialy its posible for a Wspace to have (for example) 2 gates, one only lets in frigates and the other lets in Battlecruisers and orcas?
Raymon James Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.01.27 15:24:00 - [16] Originally by: Brutal Bruno SiSi????? Last week in feb(points up/back several pages)
Raymon James Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.01.27 15:57:00 - [17] Originally by: Shadowsword Edited by: Shadowsword on 27/01/2009 15:27:13 Rnadom high-sec player does exploration, find a WH. Wspace is not part of standard exploration. its a seperate mechanic in that once you scan down a wormhole you know its there and can either ignore it or go look to see whats there (kind of like the current Grav returns are in empire since I dont think anyone goes to them since the return on empire Gravy sights is currently worse than spending the same time mineing Veldspar) basicaly I suspect for almost all empire based explorers it will be a non starter for them since if they wanted to get into exploration with PvP they would already be doing it in 0.0 or in low sec to start with, not in some space that defacto is worse than knownspace 0.0 because you will not know if its a dead end system or one that also links straight to Tribute or Delve
Raymon James Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.01.27 16:56:00 - [18] the way I understand it Wspace will be one of the following conetion wise Empire only low sec only 0.0 only empire and low sec only low sec and 00 only any system other wormhole only(Ie Wspace that hooks to other Wspace) K<->K bridges
Raymon James Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.01.27 23:32:00 - [19] Originally by: Pilk Edited by: Pilk on 27/01/2009 18:58:08 As the person who created this set of probe coverage bookmarks, given the developers (especialy the Dbase developers) absolute HATRED of bookmarks (see the Warp to zero nerf) I think we now know why they changed the system!
Raymon James Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.01.28 17:52:00 - [20] Originally by: CCP Prism X Edited by: CCP Prism X on 28/01/2009 17:24:25 Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab . At any rate: As it stands the in-out trick will do you a lot of good to dictate connections from W-K and I, for one, dislike that. I am however known to be difficult to the point of malice so you don't need to worry just yet. The team does recognize the issue at hand and is contemplating whether it should be addressed and if so, how. It should be expressed again, as Whisper commented on, that the nature of SCRUM is such that nothing here is set in stone. I know all developers say this during these kinds of discussions but SCRUM is made for that. So, things might change.. that's the point of getting the feedback from you guys (although I also like the "OOohh"s and "AAAaaah"s). you Overcapitalised it again. To me the solution is simple take the list of regions treat them like a deck of cards each Wormhole has a deck of regions that it will link to then shuffle the wormholes "deck of regions" then every time it needs to open a wormhole it picks the system from the region on the top of the deck. once you get 75% (or 80 or 90 or 95%) of the regions drawn, shuffle the discard pile of regions and add it to the bottom of the pile. that will tend to force the wormhole to move around and force any wanabe Wormhole tunnel diggers to at least work for a liveing to get it back to "there" space

Raymon James Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.01.28 18:44:00 - [21] Edited by: Raymon James on 28/01/2009 18:54:01 Edited by: Raymon James on 28/01/2009 18:53:17 Edited by: Raymon James on 28/01/2009 18:45:41 Originally by: CCP Prism X Originally by: Zackalwe Originally by: CCP Prism X It's really not as nice and comfy over there as some of the proponents of Alliances claiming everything with POSs would like you to think. I'm quite looking forward to following to seeing these plans unfold upon launch. I find in a lot of MMOs the devs consistently underestimate the resourcefulness and determination of some of their playerbase. If it turns out that deathstars do end up on the majority of good moons, will you then agree that allowing this was a mistake and make changes to the mechanics? Let me rephrase that for you: [i]It's really not as nice and comfy over there as some of the proponents of Alliances claiming everything with POSs would like you to think. I'm quite looking forward to following to seeing these plans unfold upon launch. . . . On a personal note: I'm a player as well man. I've been an MMO player for much longer than I've been an MMO developer. And I'd have to have been playing some.. apocryphal.. MMOs to think that devs will always out-think players. I would also have to have zero programming experience. Ive been running some spread sheets to see what the numbers look like my base assumptions 1) the Average wormhole would only fit an orca (meaning half the time it would not fit) 2) wormholes would randomly conect to ANY system including to itself and other wormholes 3) needing to have a network of Orcas ready to move within three jumps of any given new wormhole 4)haveing orcas deployed in a patern on standby so that their is at least one within 3 jumps of where you land a wormhole(based on the "core" unit being in Jita)(to clarify the wormhole had to land somehere in or very close to the Forge) and 5)you are able to scan and crush a wormhole gate every 5 min it takes an average of just under 6 hours a day to get a given wormhole to link back to the Forge with a wormhole big enough to allow an orca

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